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> <channel><title>Comments on: £100M for whole patient genomes – revolutionising genetic diagnostics or squandering NHS cash?</title> <atom:link href="http://www.genomesunzipped.org/2013/02/100m-for-whole-patient-genomes-revolutionising-genetic-diagnostics-or-squandering-nhs-cash.php/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" /><link>http://www.genomesunzipped.org/2013/02/100m-for-whole-patient-genomes-revolutionising-genetic-diagnostics-or-squandering-nhs-cash.php</link> <description>public personal genomics</description> <lastBuildDate>Thu, 23 May 2013 10:04:36 +0000</lastBuildDate> <sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod> <sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency> <generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.5.1</generator> <item><title>By: Sequencing Seattle: An Idea for the Future of the Northwest &#124; Biology, Business, Baseball, Biotech...</title><link>http://www.genomesunzipped.org/2013/02/100m-for-whole-patient-genomes-revolutionising-genetic-diagnostics-or-squandering-nhs-cash.php#comment-934445</link> <dc:creator>Sequencing Seattle: An Idea for the Future of the Northwest &#124; Biology, Business, Baseball, Biotech...</dc:creator> <pubDate>Mon, 13 May 2013 02:44:17 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.genomesunzipped.org/?p=5358#comment-934445</guid> <description><![CDATA[[...] being talked up with larger organizations, such as the United Kingdom’s NICE (even if they may not be going about it the right way).  Seattle has the opportunity to do it the right way, and if we wait until [...]]]></description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] being talked up with larger organizations, such as the United Kingdom’s NICE (even if they may not be going about it the right way).  Seattle has the opportunity to do it the right way, and if we wait until [...]</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: abcx</title><link>http://www.genomesunzipped.org/2013/02/100m-for-whole-patient-genomes-revolutionising-genetic-diagnostics-or-squandering-nhs-cash.php#comment-918954</link> <dc:creator>abcx</dc:creator> <pubDate>Fri, 10 May 2013 14:13:39 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.genomesunzipped.org/?p=5358#comment-918954</guid> <description><![CDATA[How will exome sequencing help us flag non-coding mutations, indels, CNVs, etc. that result in phenotypic changes? Part of the reason for the poor success of GWAS is that the causative factors often lie outside of exons and genes. SNPs in upstream promoters, transcription factor binding sites, enhancers, etc.]]></description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How will exome sequencing help us flag non-coding mutations, indels, CNVs, etc. that result in phenotypic changes? Part of the reason for the poor success of GWAS is that the causative factors often lie outside of exons and genes. SNPs in upstream promoters, transcription factor binding sites, enhancers, etc.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: James Hadfield</title><link>http://www.genomesunzipped.org/2013/02/100m-for-whole-patient-genomes-revolutionising-genetic-diagnostics-or-squandering-nhs-cash.php#comment-663508</link> <dc:creator>James Hadfield</dc:creator> <pubDate>Fri, 15 Feb 2013 11:25:57 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.genomesunzipped.org/?p=5358#comment-663508</guid> <description><![CDATA[We need £1B not £100M, if the UK is gong to lead the world rather than say &quot;me too&quot;.
A great post on a subject that has huge potential to impact UK genomic-medicine positively. I&#039;d agree with Vincent&#039;s sentiments about positivity though. It is too easy to point to the potential problems and lack of details with the current plan, although those very clearly need pointing out. Stuart makes the very valid point that the announcement seemed to come out of nowhere with little substance.
I&#039;d say we may need 50x coverage for somatic analysis which is the norm in ICGC.
Genomes will always be more expensive than exomes, and exome will be more expensive than targeted sequencing. Without limitless sequencing capacity turnaround time always has to be considered and this is one of three major issues I see for the NHS (clinical benefit, cost, turnaround). Personally I favour targeted approaches as I believe they are more digestible by users (from my research-sequencing experience).
TSB have pushed into targeted sequencing as Stuart points out and that project should be reviewed as part of the evidence for investment at the level the government has suggested. There is already a large effort within the NHS to sequence many 1000&#039;s of exomes so the clinicians are well aware of the paradigm that is rapidly becoming established in the USA.
But I do think the government is right to focus the discussion on genomes, it makes good headlines and is easier to explain to the public as almost everyone has heard of the Human Genome Project. As long as the details of the project are focussed on getting the most benefit for patients and the NHS then the announcement can surely be welcomed.
The biggest problem I see is that this is not new money. £100M is a reasonably large investment but not as big as it could have been and it comes from somewhere else in the NHS. Why not pump £1B into genomic-medicine, this would be small beer compared to the Bank bailout, would stimulate highly-skilled job creation and drive genomic medicine into almost every area we need it in.
Currently there is no facility in the UK that could process 100,000 Human genomes at £1000 each, using today&#039;s HiSeq 2000 at 4 lanes per genome; for 30-50x coverage you would need to run one instrument every day until the year 2700! Assuming the UK will complete this in 10 years we&#039;d need around 70 HiSeq 2000s, which co-incidentally is not far off current UK capacity. However buying that many new instruments would gobble up almost half the budget. It turns out we need £500 genomes instead!
I don&#039;t see Oxford Nanopore Technologies brining out a viable product that this project can start using for at least another two years, probably longer.
Lastly, there is a real risk that under EU tendering laws this project could be run outside the UK or potentially in China. That would see almost all the jobs move out of the UK and would be a bad news story. Far better to build new infrastructure here in the UK and not ins the South-East where staff and space are expensive.
PS: Will I see you on the steering committee meeting next month?]]></description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We need £1B not £100M, if the UK is gong to lead the world rather than say &#8220;me too&#8221;.</p><p>A great post on a subject that has huge potential to impact UK genomic-medicine positively. I&#8217;d agree with Vincent&#8217;s sentiments about positivity though. It is too easy to point to the potential problems and lack of details with the current plan, although those very clearly need pointing out. Stuart makes the very valid point that the announcement seemed to come out of nowhere with little substance.</p><p>I&#8217;d say we may need 50x coverage for somatic analysis which is the norm in ICGC.</p><p>Genomes will always be more expensive than exomes, and exome will be more expensive than targeted sequencing. Without limitless sequencing capacity turnaround time always has to be considered and this is one of three major issues I see for the NHS (clinical benefit, cost, turnaround). Personally I favour targeted approaches as I believe they are more digestible by users (from my research-sequencing experience).<br
/> TSB have pushed into targeted sequencing as Stuart points out and that project should be reviewed as part of the evidence for investment at the level the government has suggested. There is already a large effort within the NHS to sequence many 1000&#8242;s of exomes so the clinicians are well aware of the paradigm that is rapidly becoming established in the USA.</p><p>But I do think the government is right to focus the discussion on genomes, it makes good headlines and is easier to explain to the public as almost everyone has heard of the Human Genome Project. As long as the details of the project are focussed on getting the most benefit for patients and the NHS then the announcement can surely be welcomed.<br
/> The biggest problem I see is that this is not new money. £100M is a reasonably large investment but not as big as it could have been and it comes from somewhere else in the NHS. Why not pump £1B into genomic-medicine, this would be small beer compared to the Bank bailout, would stimulate highly-skilled job creation and drive genomic medicine into almost every area we need it in.</p><p>Currently there is no facility in the UK that could process 100,000 Human genomes at £1000 each, using today&#8217;s HiSeq 2000 at 4 lanes per genome; for 30-50x coverage you would need to run one instrument every day until the year 2700! Assuming the UK will complete this in 10 years we&#8217;d need around 70 HiSeq 2000s, which co-incidentally is not far off current UK capacity. However buying that many new instruments would gobble up almost half the budget. It turns out we need £500 genomes instead!</p><p>I don&#8217;t see Oxford Nanopore Technologies brining out a viable product that this project can start using for at least another two years, probably longer.</p><p>Lastly, there is a real risk that under EU tendering laws this project could be run outside the UK or potentially in China. That would see almost all the jobs move out of the UK and would be a bad news story. Far better to build new infrastructure here in the UK and not ins the South-East where staff and space are expensive.</p><p>PS: Will I see you on the steering committee meeting next month?</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Uli Pfeffer</title><link>http://www.genomesunzipped.org/2013/02/100m-for-whole-patient-genomes-revolutionising-genetic-diagnostics-or-squandering-nhs-cash.php#comment-661762</link> <dc:creator>Uli Pfeffer</dc:creator> <pubDate>Wed, 13 Feb 2013 17:17:24 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.genomesunzipped.org/?p=5358#comment-661762</guid> <description><![CDATA[Interesting points. I agree with you that whole genome sequencing will not deliver much at present, exome sequencing has a higher probability of delivering clinically valuable information. Yet we must also consider that the mining of the non coding genome will be advanced by the sequencing of many genomes with complete annotation. I welcome 100M£ but I also expect these money to go into genomes as well as into tools and research. I think the most important issue now is the matching between mutations and drugs, at least in oncology where we expect major effects on therapy.]]></description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting points. I agree with you that whole genome sequencing will not deliver much at present, exome sequencing has a higher probability of delivering clinically valuable information. Yet we must also consider that the mining of the non coding genome will be advanced by the sequencing of many genomes with complete annotation. I welcome 100M£ but I also expect these money to go into genomes as well as into tools and research. I think the most important issue now is the matching between mutations and drugs, at least in oncology where we expect major effects on therapy.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Links 2/6/13 &#124; Mike the Mad Biologist</title><link>http://www.genomesunzipped.org/2013/02/100m-for-whole-patient-genomes-revolutionising-genetic-diagnostics-or-squandering-nhs-cash.php#comment-652916</link> <dc:creator>Links 2/6/13 &#124; Mike the Mad Biologist</dc:creator> <pubDate>Wed, 06 Feb 2013 21:54:51 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.genomesunzipped.org/?p=5358#comment-652916</guid> <description><![CDATA[[...] £100M for whole patient genomes – revolutionising genetic diagnostics or squandering NHS cash? Data for dummies: 6 data-analysis tools anyone can use Glowing reviews on &#8216;arseniclife&#8217; spurred NASA&#8217;s embrace Genetic discrimination and life insurance: a systematic review of the evidence Catching the Cold: Tracking the genetic diversity and evolution of rhinoviruses can lead to a better understanding of viral evolution, the common cold, and more dangerous infections. Darwin Day resolution introduced in U.S. House [...]]]></description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] £100M for whole patient genomes – revolutionising genetic diagnostics or squandering NHS cash? Data for dummies: 6 data-analysis tools anyone can use Glowing reviews on &#8216;arseniclife&#8217; spurred NASA&#8217;s embrace Genetic discrimination and life insurance: a systematic review of the evidence Catching the Cold: Tracking the genetic diversity and evolution of rhinoviruses can lead to a better understanding of viral evolution, the common cold, and more dangerous infections. Darwin Day resolution introduced in U.S. House [...]</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Stuart Hogarth</title><link>http://www.genomesunzipped.org/2013/02/100m-for-whole-patient-genomes-revolutionising-genetic-diagnostics-or-squandering-nhs-cash.php#comment-643622</link> <dc:creator>Stuart Hogarth</dc:creator> <pubDate>Sun, 03 Feb 2013 12:04:43 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.genomesunzipped.org/?p=5358#comment-643622</guid> <description><![CDATA[Hi Caroline
thank you for an excellent analysis of many of the key practical questions raised by the government&#039;s plan. I expressed some concerns about this initiative when it was announced (see
&lt;a href=&quot;http://genevalues.wordpress.com/2012/12/11/a-grand-bargain/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;A grand bargain?&lt;/a&gt;). Your point about the alternative testing options for tumour profiling are particularly pertinent, given that the Technology Strategy Board have alread invested a considerable amount on a tumour profiling project focused on clinical implementation (see &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.innovateuk.org/content/competition-announcements/research-and-development-into-tumour-profiling-wil.ashx&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;TSB announcement&lt;/a&gt;).
Your argument that this initiative arises in part because of the iconic status of the genome is telling, but I would suggest that underpinning this initiative is an unhealthy obsession with the technological cutting-edge and mistaken assumptions about the benefits of first-mover advantage. I have yet to hear a convincing argument about how UK PLC can ensure that we capture the value of our £100M investment (particularly given the likelihood of Oxford Gene Technology being acquired by Illumina, as the Cambridge-based Solexa was previously).
When the Roche Amplichip came onto the US market in 2004 it was the first FDA-approved pharmacogenetic microarray. It was a cutting-edge technology which promised to deliver a new era of personalised medicine. It has been a commercial failure which has enjoyed only very limited clinical uptake. Its weakness was not the platform technology, but the lack of robust evidence to support clinical implementation of CYP450 testing.
It is no coincidence that the last major government announcement on the future of genomics (the 2003 Genetics White Paper) singled out pharmacogenetics as the low-hanging fruit of the genomic revolution and promised a major investment in the area (the UK warfarin pharmacogenetics trial). The failure(thus far) of warfarin pharmacogenetics (a project heavily promoted as a poster child for personalised medicine, not least by senior FDA officials in the USA) illustrates the difficulties in picking winners in biotechnology.
Your post illustrates that there are multiple competing visions of how genomics will enter the practice of medicine - given the failure of previous visions, we need a broad and open debate about our genomic future(s). The government&#039;s December announcement was made without broad stakeholder engagement, it is only to be hoped that public discussion now can provide a useful and constructive corrective.]]></description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Caroline<br
/> thank you for an excellent analysis of many of the key practical questions raised by the government&#8217;s plan. I expressed some concerns about this initiative when it was announced (see<br
/> <a
href="http://genevalues.wordpress.com/2012/12/11/a-grand-bargain/" rel="nofollow">A grand bargain?</a>). Your point about the alternative testing options for tumour profiling are particularly pertinent, given that the Technology Strategy Board have alread invested a considerable amount on a tumour profiling project focused on clinical implementation (see <a
href="http://www.innovateuk.org/content/competition-announcements/research-and-development-into-tumour-profiling-wil.ashx" rel="nofollow">TSB announcement</a>).<br
/> Your argument that this initiative arises in part because of the iconic status of the genome is telling, but I would suggest that underpinning this initiative is an unhealthy obsession with the technological cutting-edge and mistaken assumptions about the benefits of first-mover advantage. I have yet to hear a convincing argument about how UK PLC can ensure that we capture the value of our £100M investment (particularly given the likelihood of Oxford Gene Technology being acquired by Illumina, as the Cambridge-based Solexa was previously).<br
/> When the Roche Amplichip came onto the US market in 2004 it was the first FDA-approved pharmacogenetic microarray. It was a cutting-edge technology which promised to deliver a new era of personalised medicine. It has been a commercial failure which has enjoyed only very limited clinical uptake. Its weakness was not the platform technology, but the lack of robust evidence to support clinical implementation of CYP450 testing.<br
/> It is no coincidence that the last major government announcement on the future of genomics (the 2003 Genetics White Paper) singled out pharmacogenetics as the low-hanging fruit of the genomic revolution and promised a major investment in the area (the UK warfarin pharmacogenetics trial). The failure(thus far) of warfarin pharmacogenetics (a project heavily promoted as a poster child for personalised medicine, not least by senior FDA officials in the USA) illustrates the difficulties in picking winners in biotechnology.<br
/> Your post illustrates that there are multiple competing visions of how genomics will enter the practice of medicine &#8211; given the failure of previous visions, we need a broad and open debate about our genomic future(s). The government&#8217;s December announcement was made without broad stakeholder engagement, it is only to be hoped that public discussion now can provide a useful and constructive corrective.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Vincent Plagnol</title><link>http://www.genomesunzipped.org/2013/02/100m-for-whole-patient-genomes-revolutionising-genetic-diagnostics-or-squandering-nhs-cash.php#comment-641182</link> <dc:creator>Vincent Plagnol</dc:creator> <pubDate>Sat, 02 Feb 2013 14:09:46 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.genomesunzipped.org/?p=5358#comment-641182</guid> <description><![CDATA[Thank you for the post Caroline, that is very informative.
This being said I am quite a bit more positive about this announcement than you are. I do not know exactly what the NHS invests per patient to diagnose a rare genetic disorder, but I think this is quite high currently. If this initiative can start shifting this business to more modern sequencing technologies this would be a valuable outcome.
Whole genome may still be a waste today but whole exome is probably not. And there may not be any substantial difference in price between sequencing an exome or a targeted approach for a few 100s of genes. Lastly, data analysis can, should and will be largely automated, especially if one discards most of the data and only considers a subset of reliable genes that are generally free of false positive (because the sequence is unique and clean enough).I think this analytical cost will soon become relatively small.
So in my opinion, especially  if this money is spent on people who would already receive some sort of genetic testing, the cost may be much lower than expected, and eventually generate savings. We&#039;ll have to sort the analytical and data storage issues at some point anyway, and now is as good a time as any. So we might as well get started. Plenty of initiatives like this one will start all over the US I suspect, so the timing is probably right.]]></description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for the post Caroline, that is very informative.</p><p>This being said I am quite a bit more positive about this announcement than you are. I do not know exactly what the NHS invests per patient to diagnose a rare genetic disorder, but I think this is quite high currently. If this initiative can start shifting this business to more modern sequencing technologies this would be a valuable outcome.</p><p>Whole genome may still be a waste today but whole exome is probably not. And there may not be any substantial difference in price between sequencing an exome or a targeted approach for a few 100s of genes. Lastly, data analysis can, should and will be largely automated, especially if one discards most of the data and only considers a subset of reliable genes that are generally free of false positive (because the sequence is unique and clean enough).I think this analytical cost will soon become relatively small.</p><p>So in my opinion, especially  if this money is spent on people who would already receive some sort of genetic testing, the cost may be much lower than expected, and eventually generate savings. We&#8217;ll have to sort the analytical and data storage issues at some point anyway, and now is as good a time as any. So we might as well get started. Plenty of initiatives like this one will start all over the US I suspect, so the timing is probably right.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> </channel> </rss>